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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:28 pm 
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Peasant

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:42 am
Posts: 4
As a mostly-neutral party to this, I'm interested: what unintended consequences does destroying a civ create?




Quote:
The exploiters were IP banned, and account banned. (including known alts). Their accounts were wiped, the civ accounts were wiped, the town accounts were wiped, and their great library was destroyed which recovered most of the coins that they were able to obtain via illegitimate means.

If you're only taking "most" of the coinage away from them... that's not much of a punishment monetary-wise if they're not losing it all... or more. I'm just interested in why they weren't hit with the highest level of punishment as a whole for a serious offense.

I wasn't hit with this issue personally, but it does seem like a light punishment where a hefty one capable of discouraging any and all attempts to dupe in the future might be a better idea. While it's not owed to me, or anyone else, I am interested in the general logic if it might be shared.

There's also a chance a full explanation exploring the reasoning might help quiet this mob that's taken to the forums, though I'm seeing a lot of pitch-forks from this visit, so I wouldn't be sure about that...


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:12 pm 
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Prince

Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:46 am
Posts: 168
Location: The Pileus Mountains farming Yobo's 24/7
I post 1 thing and you hate on me 3 times Thaspeare. Post Spam so much :!:

_________________
Leader of Aurora, Leader of Lemon, Adviser of Targaryens
Mayor of Frostbain, Mayor of Lime, Mayor of Drath
Arendal:
Phase 5-7 Aurora
Corinith:
Phase 7 Lemon,Targaryens
Grenard:
Phase 7 Aurora

Thaspeare calls me a hacker.... Alot


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:46 pm 
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AvRGaming Staff

Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:47 am
Posts: 1622
AgentAAA wrote:
As a mostly-neutral party to this, I'm interested: what unintended consequences does destroying a civ create?


Not everyone who is in a civ is guilty of a crime committed by it's individual members. Imagine putting all of your hard earned money in to your civilization and then, due to the actions of a single member, have it be destroyed.

Quote:
If you're only taking "most" of the coinage away from them... that's not much of a punishment monetary-wise if they're not losing it all... or more. I'm just interested in why they weren't hit with the highest level of punishment as a whole for a serious offense.


They were hit with the highest level of punishment. There is no way for me to punish an individual any more than an IP ban and a permaban for the account. There was nothing more we could do to the individuals involved. Unless of course I assume that everyone in the civ is guilty. Which is what the pitchfork mob is calling for.

Quote:
I wasn't hit with this issue personally, but it does seem like a light punishment where a hefty one capable of discouraging any and all attempts to dupe in the future might be a better idea. While it's not owed to me, or anyone else, I am interested in the general logic if it might be shared.


The logic is simple. We cannot prove that the entire civ is guilty based on the actions of a couple individuals. So we're not going to erase all their work. I do not believe in guilt by association.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:42 pm 
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Emperor

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:23 pm
Posts: 804
Location: A distant land
Well put Netizen.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:57 pm 
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Monarch

Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 5:00 am
Posts: 355
netizen539 wrote:
AgentAAA wrote:
As a mostly-neutral party to this, I'm interested: what unintended consequences does destroying a civ create?


Not everyone who is in a civ is guilty of a crime committed by it's individual members. Imagine putting all of your hard earned money in to your civilization and then, due to the actions of a single member, have it be destroyed.

Quote:
If you're only taking "most" of the coinage away from them... that's not much of a punishment monetary-wise if they're not losing it all... or more. I'm just interested in why they weren't hit with the highest level of punishment as a whole for a serious offense.


They were hit with the highest level of punishment. There is no way for me to punish an individual any more than an IP ban and a permaban for the account. There was nothing more we could do to the individuals involved. Unless of course I assume that everyone in the civ is guilty. Which is what the pitchfork mob is calling for.

Quote:
I wasn't hit with this issue personally, but it does seem like a light punishment where a hefty one capable of discouraging any and all attempts to dupe in the future might be a better idea. While it's not owed to me, or anyone else, I am interested in the general logic if it might be shared.


The logic is simple. We cannot prove that the entire civ is guilty based on the actions of a couple individuals. So we're not going to erase all their work. I do not believe in guilt by association.



I don't mean to be the one with the pitch fork here but,

Assume this:

Leader: do you have money for the next tech?
Said only duper: yea here's the 1m
Leader: where did you get this?
Said only duper: don't worry about it ok?
Leader: did you dupe it???
Said only duper: no if course not
Leader: ok you probably did but I won't get in trouble because you did it not me c:

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"Kill a man, one is a murderor,
Kill a million, a conqueror,
Kill them all, a god."
- A Leader of Aurora -


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:07 pm 
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Prince

Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 11:37 pm
Posts: 111
xxcorruptedx wrote:
netizen539 wrote:
AgentAAA wrote:
As a mostly-neutral party to this, I'm interested: what unintended consequences does destroying a civ create?


Not everyone who is in a civ is guilty of a crime committed by it's individual members. Imagine putting all of your hard earned money in to your civilization and then, due to the actions of a single member, have it be destroyed.

Quote:
If you're only taking "most" of the coinage away from them... that's not much of a punishment monetary-wise if they're not losing it all... or more. I'm just interested in why they weren't hit with the highest level of punishment as a whole for a serious offense.


They were hit with the highest level of punishment. There is no way for me to punish an individual any more than an IP ban and a permaban for the account. There was nothing more we could do to the individuals involved. Unless of course I assume that everyone in the civ is guilty. Which is what the pitchfork mob is calling for.

Quote:
I wasn't hit with this issue personally, but it does seem like a light punishment where a hefty one capable of discouraging any and all attempts to dupe in the future might be a better idea. While it's not owed to me, or anyone else, I am interested in the general logic if it might be shared.


The logic is simple. We cannot prove that the entire civ is guilty based on the actions of a couple individuals. So we're not going to erase all their work. I do not believe in guilt by association.



I don't mean to be the one with the pitch fork here but,

Assume this:

Leader: do you have money for the next tech?
Said only duper: yea here's the 1m
Leader: where did you get this?
Said only duper: don't worry about it ok?
Leader: did you dupe it???
Said only duper: no if course not
Leader: ok you probably did but I won't get in trouble because you did it not me c:



SILENCE! The Netizen hath spoken.

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576 alts on the wall, 576 alts
Take one down, put it back up
Because alts aren't cheap.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:21 pm 
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Prince

Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:46 am
Posts: 168
Location: The Pileus Mountains farming Yobo's 24/7
How far advanced they are already and with their civs already history of duping... It seemingly cant be legit is all we are saying.

_________________
Leader of Aurora, Leader of Lemon, Adviser of Targaryens
Mayor of Frostbain, Mayor of Lime, Mayor of Drath
Arendal:
Phase 5-7 Aurora
Corinith:
Phase 7 Lemon,Targaryens
Grenard:
Phase 7 Aurora

Thaspeare calls me a hacker.... Alot


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:49 pm 
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Prince

Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:16 pm
Posts: 238
flash333 wrote:
How far advanced they are already and with their civs already history of duping... It seemingly cant be legit is all we are saying.

To the point they already have Alloys

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:04 pm 
Offline
Peasant

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:42 am
Posts: 4
netizen539 wrote:
AgentAAA wrote:
As a mostly-neutral party to this, I'm interested: what unintended consequences does destroying a civ create?


Not everyone who is in a civ is guilty of a crime committed by it's individual members. Imagine putting all of your hard earned money in to your civilization and then, due to the actions of a single member, have it be destroyed.

Quote:
If you're only taking "most" of the coinage away from them... that's not much of a punishment monetary-wise if they're not losing it all... or more. I'm just interested in why they weren't hit with the highest level of punishment as a whole for a serious offense.


They were hit with the highest level of punishment. There is no way for me to punish an individual any more than an IP ban and a permaban for the account. There was nothing more we could do to the individuals involved. Unless of course I assume that everyone in the civ is guilty. Which is what the pitchfork mob is calling for.

Quote:
I wasn't hit with this issue personally, but it does seem like a light punishment where a hefty one capable of discouraging any and all attempts to dupe in the future might be a better idea. While it's not owed to me, or anyone else, I am interested in the general logic if it might be shared.


The logic is simple. We cannot prove that the entire civ is guilty based on the actions of a couple individuals. So we're not going to erase all their work. I do not believe in guilt by association.




I'd actually agree with that for the most part, as that's a good point for most of the residents. I admittedly am unsure if I'd say the same for the leaders of "Civilization" admittedly, as they simply took the mil or so either knowing of the dupe or not asking where it comes from. A leader should be responsible for his citizens to some degree.
That said, yeah, seeing if we can't make sure that at the least the entirety of the monetary gain is gone would be nice. Is there a way to check the exact amount they funneled into their civ or do the servers just not work that way?

I'm also guessing chatlogging isn't implemented either as that'd be a good way to check for the knowledge the other civ members actually had. Thank you for posting this.


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