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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:22 pm 
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Monarch

Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 5:00 am
Posts: 355
Netizen, why instead of doing all this work, which is great but...
Couldn't you have asked shotbow for their anti cheat?
It's great.

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Kill a million, a conqueror,
Kill them all, a god."
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:23 pm 
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AvRGaming Staff

Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:47 am
Posts: 1622
xxcorruptedx wrote:
Netizen, why instead of doing all this work, which is great but...
Couldn't you have asked shotbow for their anti cheat?
It's great.


Does it prevent x-ray?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:41 pm 
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Prince

Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 11:37 pm
Posts: 111
netizen539 wrote:
Archy wrote:
Five minutes of looking at the code and I already found ways to bypass it.
Client side mods are not the answer to hacks, good staff is. It's sad that you still, after all this time, don't realize that.


I don't believe you. Prove it to me. Send me a PM or a youtube video of your bypass and I'll patch it and update it.

I realize you may be still be upset for losing your mod privileges, and hence have a vested interest in changing our policies regarding mod powers and staffing choices. But you're not welcome to come on here and trash-talk if the only goal is to make people upset. AFAIK you don't play anymore, so I can only come to the conclusion that you're a troll at this point. Consider this your warning to stop.


I understand that Archy likes to cause trouble, however, he has a point. Client side mods shouldn't be needed. Not only will it give new players yet another reason not to join, but it can be bypassed. Then the cheater will be protected because hey, it says he isn't cheating. While this can help a bit, it truly only worsens the problem.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:45 pm 
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Warrior

Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:24 am
Posts: 54
ajwboss wrote:
netizen539 wrote:
Archy wrote:
Five minutes of looking at the code and I already found ways to bypass it.
Client side mods are not the answer to hacks, good staff is. It's sad that you still, after all this time, don't realize that.


I don't believe you. Prove it to me. Send me a PM or a youtube video of your bypass and I'll patch it and update it.

I realize you may be still be upset for losing your mod privileges, and hence have a vested interest in changing our policies regarding mod powers and staffing choices. But you're not welcome to come on here and trash-talk if the only goal is to make people upset. AFAIK you don't play anymore, so I can only come to the conclusion that you're a troll at this point. Consider this your warning to stop.


I understand that Archy likes to cause trouble, however, he has a point. Client side mods shouldn't be needed. Not only will it give new players yet another reason not to join, but it can be bypassed. Then the cheater will be protected because hey, it says he isn't cheating. While this can help a bit, it truly only worsens the problem.


Well, Netizen did say this:

netizen539 wrote:
Additionally if you tinker with the anti-cheat in certain ways it can put you on a silent ban list. Meaning it will let you in, say you're validated, let you play but you're name and IP has been logged for a future ban-wave. The anti-cheat client is only 50% of the code, the other code exists on the server and you can't see it. So unless you're pretty skilled (and frankly a bit lucky as most programmers have to make mistakes a few times to get things right) you're going to be caught and banned.
*emphasis mine*

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Phase 6 Grenard: Co-Leader of Sappers, Mayor of Atlantis (winner of phase 6)
Phase 7 Corinth: Co-Leader of CivCraft Studios, Mayor of Frozen

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:33 pm 
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AvRGaming Staff

Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:47 am
Posts: 1622
ajwboss wrote:
I understand that Archy likes to cause trouble, however, he has a point. Client side mods shouldn't be needed. Not only will it give new players yet another reason not to join, but it can be bypassed. Then the cheater will be protected because hey, it says he isn't cheating. While this can help a bit, it truly only worsens the problem.


Valve has invested a lot of money into VAC and it seems to be working for them. Pretending that player-admins 'fixes' the problem is absurd and its been gone over again and again. If anything, player admins give a bigger false sense of security. If you have been paying attention, this anti-cheat is not required for new players to join. Its only required for old players, in civs, in war, on the PvP/Competitive focused version of CivCraft. Additionally, having the anti-cheat installed doesn't make you exempt from NoCheat, player reports, and the current staff. It can only stand to help.

The fact that there is resistance to it at all after knowing all the facts suggests to me that some players would really rather have a system in which they can get away with cheating, so long as they are not stupid with them. With only admins watching players, you could get away with x-ray 100% of the time by simply using it strategically. Back in my CS1.6 days we called it 'toggling'. It's a practice in which you look legit 99% percent of the time but use the cheat at critical moments to gain an unfair advantage. Just a while back I remember banning someone who uploaded a video to youtube in which the hacking client was hidden, but accidentally pushed 'x' during the video for half a second revealing that an x-ray hack was installed. They were cocky enough to upload the video to youtube anyway and claim it was a chunk loading issue. The lack of a sense of fear and nonchalance with which the video was posted only leads me to believe that this sort of thing is rampant.

The client side anti-hack isn't perfect but it sure as hell is going to make a cheaters life harder and more risky.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 pm 
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Prince

Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:06 am
Posts: 219
I totally agree with Netizen on this!

Plus, a lot of those that talk about client-side being unsafe probably don't even know what programming looks like. So, if you don't know how things work, then don't pretend you know.

There is a lot of small easy check-ups Netizen can put in place to make it secure enough so the middle hacker can't bypass it.

It will never be 100% foolproof, but hey, if only the top hackers can break it... Isn't it enough for a small game?

I mean, who, here, could bypass this and use a mod like, let's say, this weekend?
Okokok, I'll be fair, who has an idea of what could be done to by-pass it?

(Hint: Brute force it isn't an hack possibility here...)

Nice work on this Netizen!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:58 pm 
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Settler

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:56 pm
Posts: 31
Is this also required on corinth?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:59 pm 
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AvRGaming Staff

Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:47 am
Posts: 1622
redja150 wrote:
Is this also required on corinth?


This client mod is NOT required for casual servers so its not required on Corinth.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:07 am 
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AvRGaming Staff

Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:47 am
Posts: 1622
tyggerr wrote:
I totally agree with Netizen on this!

Plus, a lot of those that talk about client-side being unsafe probably don't even know what programming looks like. So, if you don't know how things work, then don't pretend you know.

There is a lot of small easy check-ups Netizen can put in place to make it secure enough so the middle hacker can't bypass it.

It will never be 100% foolproof, but hey, if only the top hackers can break it... Isn't it enough for a small game?

I mean, who, here, could bypass this and use a mod like, let's say, this weekend?
Okokok, I'll be fair, who has an idea of what could be done to by-pass it?

(Hint: Brute force it isn't an hack possibility here...)

Nice work on this Netizen!


Thanks tyggerr,

I'd like to point out that even if the client mod was easily bypassed, having this requirement instantly makes CivCraft PvP mode the most secure hack free server for Minecraft that exists. Literally. If you manage to make a bypass, its not going to be as freely available as common Minecraft hacks are now and It takes little effort for me to update the anti-hack, breaking the bypass.

As far as I know, no other minecraft servers have written custom anti-hack clients. If you want or need to hack, you can play somewhere else :twisted:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:45 am 
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Monarch

Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 5:00 am
Posts: 355
netizen539 wrote:
xxcorruptedx wrote:
Netizen, why instead of doing all this work, which is great but...
Couldn't you have asked shotbow for their anti cheat?
It's great.


Does it prevent x-ray?



Yes it does, very well too.
Ask shotbow for their HCF anti-xray and the MiineZ force field anti hack and we should be good to go.
With this noobs won't need to download and more people will play. :)

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"Kill a man, one is a murderor,
Kill a million, a conqueror,
Kill them all, a god."
- A Leader of Aurora -


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